Is The Doctor "alive"? |
Yes |
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66% |
[ 8 ] |
No |
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25% |
[ 3 ] |
Unsure |
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8% |
[ 1 ] |
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Total Votes : 12 |
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mythulto Crewman
Joined: 08 Jan 2009 Posts: 3 Location: Fluidic Space
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Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:33 am Is The Doctor a sentient being? |
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I just saw the two-part episode, "Flesh and Blood" which concerns a group of holograph characters who "expand beyond their initial programming" to the point of attaining conscious thought and self-awareness, revolt against their owners and head off to form a new society just for holograms. Along the way, The Doctor considers joining them.
I enjoyed the episode for the many thought-provoking ideas and questions it brought up -- even outside of the obvious one -- but the real stumbling block for me was the question upon which the whole episode is based, which is: can holograms (computer programs) become sentient? Or more simplistically, can a machine become a life-form and ultimately "grow" a soul? [or can it become "alive" and NOT grow a soul?] Even given the fact that computer technology in the 23rd century is fabulously advanced, is it possible? If so, isn't this akin to the Frankenstein myth of man creating life? Is there a difference between becoming "sentient" and becoming "alive"?
This is a pretty big deal, if you ask me, but it's one that Captain Janeway and crew never directly address. Perhaps rightly so.
At the outset, The Doctor was nothing more than a tool equipped with clever responses, but he quickly evolved into much more. Is this because Janeway and crew [and viewers] merely attached their own emotional hooks to him, much like one attaches to a stuffed animal or a favorite coffee cup? Or did he really become alive? The fact that the Voyagers were several times called upon to risk limb and life to rescue (or retrieve) The Doctor is remarkable. What would YOU risk, or ask others to risk, to save your cherished teddy bear from a fire?
And if The Doc did come "alive" what does that mean for future technology as portayed in the show. Can they create life so easily?
Anyway, I just wanted to seed this thought. I may come back later and add to it, but I am also interested to hear what others have to say.
Mythulto
Last edited by mythulto on Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Founder Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004 Posts: 12755 Location: Gamma Quadrant
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Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:57 am |
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Great topic! I made a similiar one a long time ago.
It is a difficult question to ask. For the EMH specifically? Yes, I think that he did. He grew to be sentient, much the same way we do. As a baby, we have the potential for sentience with growth, but we don't start that way. We're just animals mostly. It's a poor comparison, but it's really early where I am at.
I think that with everything he went through and the experiences, he did grow to be his own being. He cared about the others and even made mistakes, not very machine-like.
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captnskydiver Freshman Cadet
Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 5
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Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:24 am |
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If you want to keep up with Star Trek universe rules (and I guess you want) he is.
But if you prefer the universe you live in most of the time ) than no.
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milan Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 263 Location: Romania
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Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:49 am |
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The doc is one of my favourites. I'm watching the series from the beginning at the moment, the doc was much more acid in the beginning. He is progressing into the jolly fellow we all know along the series. I think he is more alive than many of the crewmembers, in a way
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ilikefire208 Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 12 May 2006 Posts: 226 Location: kansas
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Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:19 am |
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yes i believe the doc is sentient, he has ambition, learns, loves, feels remorse, etc...i think about the only thing he doesnt do is use the restroom....but then again you never see anyone in ST use a restroom...cept for a sink or shower
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Manitou Ensign, Junior Grade
Joined: 17 Sep 2007 Posts: 43 Location: michigan, bob
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Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:24 pm Eventually |
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In 'Flesh and Blood' Janeway did regard the holograms situation like they were a bunch of dumb robots. In the Delta Quadrant they must be singularly kept in a very controlled environment. Janeway was forced to treat then as bad little children- doing the wrong thing. With two Hirogen ships stepping on Voyager's tail (so to speak) nothing could be done, except run away- which she couldn't do because the holograms kidnapped Torres and the doctor.
In eight more episodes(Author, Author) she helps the doctor and convinces the crew that the doctor is alive with a soul. She convinces Earths planetary authorities that the doctor is responsible for his art and he has a right to continue.
Someone who may have many interesting ideas along this topichttp://voyprop.com/
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Valathous The Canadian, eh
Joined: 31 Aug 2002 Posts: 19074 Location: Centre Bell
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Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:23 am |
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I'd suggest going about it the same way as they did in "Measure of a Man" on "The Next Generation" with Data. The only difference I can see there is that Data actually has a physical form whereas the Doctor is just a projection that has far more physical limitations.
I believe the test for sentience shown in TNG was intelligence, self-awareness, consciousness, etc. In MoM they ruled Data was intelligent, ruled he was self-aware with aspirations, but consciousness was the iffy part. If they were iffy with Data being his own form, perhaps it'll be even harder to prove that a program within a ship's computer is conscious rather than simply reacting to circumstances based on how the programming interprets each scenario.
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Blancie Commodore
Joined: 27 Oct 2004 Posts: 1119 Location: Shetland
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Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:21 pm |
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I don't feel the need to give a reason, because everybody has already made many really good points! Suffice it to say, yes, I believe he is sentient.
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Sev Junior Cadet
Joined: 18 Mar 2009 Posts: 16 Location: Inside the Delta Flyer
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Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:47 pm |
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i've seen the holodoc in the real flesh and blood, and i can vouch for him--yes he's a sentient being
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29th Century Starfleet Sophomore Cadet
Joined: 30 Mar 2009 Posts: 11
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Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:23 pm |
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No he is not sentient any more than professor Moriarty was. He is only simulating sentience. Data is actually a lifeform. The emh is a computer program in the end.
That is why the magistrate in "Author Author" basically put the tough decision off to the next judge. He probably would have ruled no. I think he ruled the way he did as a nice gesture in recognition of what he has done for the Voyager crew and because he did not appear to like that greedy Bolian.
Now don't get me wrong I love the character. Some of my favorite episodes of Voyager are "Critical Care" {ONE OF STAR TREK's GREATEST SOCIAL ALLEGORIES I MIGHT ADD} and "Message In A Bottle"
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Founder Dominion Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2004 Posts: 12755 Location: Gamma Quadrant
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Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:42 pm |
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Um...what?
How is Data sentient, but not the Doctor? That makes no sense.
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29th Century Starfleet Sophomore Cadet
Joined: 30 Mar 2009 Posts: 11
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Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:19 pm |
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Founder wrote: | Um...what?
How is Data sentient, but not the Doctor? That makes no sense. |
In a season 2 episode of TNG "The Measure Of A Man" Data was ruled not be the property of Starfleet and have the right to make his own decisions. Because he is a sentient being. The doctor's ruling in "Author Author" was basically put off for another judge. And was just granted that one special circumstance on his piece of holonovel work.
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